More HB 1034 Exchanges

Here’s another good exchange on HB 1034, the pledge bill, between Riddle and Burnam:

REPRESENTATIVE BURNAM: You know it’s a bill that doesn’t have very many words in it, Ms. Riddle.
REPRESENTATIVE RIDDLE: I’m sorry, I couldn’t hear you.
BURNAM: It is a bill that doesn’t have many words in it.
RIDDLE: It has three words.
BURNAM: But it is as fundamental as when the pilgrims stepped on the rock at the founding of this nation and I have a lot of questions that I need answered. Do you know that in the bill analysis it’s stated that your bill will acknowledge “our Judeo-Christian heritage”?
RIDDLE:Yes, sir.
BURNAM: I’m sorry?
RIDDLE:Yes.
BURNAM: Thank you. Are you aware that Native Americans that lived on this land did not have a heritage based on Judaism or Christianity?
RIDDLE:Yes.
BURNAM: Are you also aware that within the last few decades, our country has become vastly diverse, in regards to culture and religion?

RIDDLE: That is true, and I think we all understand that. All this bill does—
BURNAM: Is it also true that today we are citizens who are Buddhist, Hindu, Muslim, Sikh, Baha’i, Zoroastrian,Wiccan, etc.?

RIDDLE: What this bill does, yes, I’m aware of those things, but what this bill does, it simply replicates, mirrors our national pledge.
BURNAM: Ms. Riddle, are you going to allow me to ask a question?
RIDDLE: When you say our national pledge, you say “one nation, under God.”

BURNAM: Ms. Riddle I know what the bill says. I have other questions.

Notice how snarky Riddle gets now:

RIDDLE: It is simply stating “one nation under God.” It is very simple, it is simply mirroring our national pledge.
BURNAM: Ms. Riddle, the hour is late. Please let me ask the questions and you answer them as quickly and as expeditiously as possible.
RIDDLE: I’m sorry, I didn’t hear you.

BURNAM: Are you aware that there are 88 Buddhist congregations in Texas?
RIDDLE: How many?
BURNAM: There are 88 Buddhist congregations in Texas, are you aware of that?
RIDDLE:Yes.
BURNAM: Are you aware that there are 34 Hindu congregations in Texas?
RIDDLE: I was not aware of that.
BURNAM: I can’t hear you.
RIDDLE: I was not aware of that.
BURNAM: Are you aware that there are 100,000 Muslims in the State of Texas?
RIDDLE: Thank you for informing us of that.
BURNAM: Are you aware that there are 13 Sikh congregations and even a Taoist congregation in the State of Texas?
RIDDLE:You’ve done a great deal of research, thank you.
BURNAM: Do you think the term “God” is an acceptable description of the divine for all of these people?

RIDDLE: I understand that we do say “one nation, under God” in our national pledge.
BURNAM: Is it not true that names, attributes, and expectations to the concept of God are different for each of these mentioned religions?
RIDDLE: I understand that within the history and with what we have accepted as the culture of the nation, that we have in our pledge, “one nation under God.” This simply mirrors that.
BURNAM: Are you aware that the governor has recently said, “Freedom of religion should not be taken as freedom from religion.” Do you agree with that statement, Ms. Riddle?
RIDDLE:Would you repeat that, I didn t’ hear you.
BURNAM: Are you aware that Governor Perry has recently said, “Freedom of religion should not be taken as freedom from religion.” And my question is, do you agree with that statement, Ms. Riddle?
RIDDLE: I would say, Amen.

Unbelievable. Simply unbelievable.  Still more:

BURNAM: Additionally, are you aware that there are eight million Texans that do not specify any religious affiliation at all and that an estimated one to two million of them are self-described atheists?
RIDDLE: That may be the case, but are you aware that we have over one hundred co-authors and joint authors of this body here?
BURNAM: Yes, and you’re trying to reverse the roll. I will address that in a moment. Is it fair then to those individuals to put “under God” in our pledge to any of the people that I’ve asked you questions about, the last ten or twelve questions. Is it fair to these individuals to impose this addition to the pledge?
RIDDLE: I would say that if the people who reside here in America and enjoy all that we have and all that we are based on here, and also say our pledge, then that is being part of an American, that is part of being this country. We say “one nation under God” when we say our pledge. This is no more, this is no less.
BURNAM: Ms. Riddle, what is the purpose of this bill?

RIDDLE: The purpose of this bill is very simple. It is to simply have our state pledge mirror if you will, reflect our national pledge. Our national pledge says, “one nation under God.” I think it is altogether right and appropriate for our state
pledge to say “one state under God.”
BURNAM: Are you aware of the term stare decisis?
RIDDLE: I’m sorry.
BURNAM: Let me spell it. It s’ s-t-a-r-e—
RIDDLE: I’m sorry, it’s echoing in here.Was I aware of what?
BURNAM: It’s the term.We r’e you aware of the term s-t-a-r-e d-e-c-i-s-i-s?
RIDDLE: No.
BURNAM: Alright, I l’l admit, the heckler in the background is pointing out that none of you are lawyers and I’m not a lawyer, so I can t’ pronounce it well, and you don’t know what it is, so I’ll tell you. It means that the Supreme Court does not overturn precedent lightly, Ms. Riddle. Do you know, Ms. Riddle, that the Supreme Court disagrees with both our governor and with you.
RIDDLE: Are you trying to say precedence?
BURNAM: No, would you like for me to spell the word again?
RIDDLE: I was just trying to decipher what you were saying. I’m sorry.
BURNAM: Let’s just move on. Do you know, Ms. Riddle, that the Supreme Court disagrees with our governor and with you. Freedom of religion does not mean freedom from religion. That’s what you said and that’s what our governor has said.
Is that correct? Would you like for me to repeat the question? Do you know Ms. Riddle, that the Supreme Court disagrees with our governor and with you. The Supreme Court says freedom of religion does mean freedom from religion?
RIDDLE: That is your opinion, sir.
BURNAM: Justice Stevens writing for the majority in Wallace vs. Jaffree wrote, “the individual’s freedom to choose his own creed is the counterpart of his right to refrain from accepting the creed established by the majority,” the majority you
referred to earlier. Moreover, the individual freedom of conscience protected by the First Amendment embraces the right to select any religious faith or none at all. Were you aware of that?
RIDDLE: Sir, I believe that you are extremely articulate, you’re extraordinarily bright, and well-respected.
BURNAM: That s’ just one example.
RIDDLE: You r’e giving a great deal of information, but what I am telling you is every day, when we stand here on the floor of the house, we do say our national pledge.We continue to say “one nation under God” and this bill is simply to mirror
or reflect “one state under God.”
BURNAM: Ms. Riddle, are you aware that simultaneous decisions by the Supreme Court allowed us to keep the ten commandments on the capitol lawn, but forced a
Kentucky courthouse to remove the ten commandments?
RIDDLE: Do you see the inscription above me here, sir?
BURNAM: Ms. Riddle, could you answer my questions? I’m at the back mic.
RIDDLE: And what is your question?
BURNAM: The question is are you aware that simultaneous decisions by the Supreme Court allowed us to keep the ten commandments on the capitol lawn, but forced a Kentucky courthouse to remove the ten commandments?
RIDDLE: This is not about the ten commandments, sir. This is about the pledge.
BURNAM: Are you aware that Justice Breyer writing for the majority in the Kentucky case wrote the following, “When the government acts with the ostensible and predominant purpose of advancing religion, it violates the simple establishment clause value of official religious neutrality, a purpose to favor one faith over another, or adherence to religion generally, clashes with the understanding that liberty and social stability demand a tolerance that respects the
religious views of all citizens.”

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